When it stops being fun....

[Johnie Basham]

I know I'm the new guy but..... I read a post where someone was quitting because the didn't feel like they should have lost their match. I have to throw my two cents in because, well, this is kind of a personal issue for me. First, I felt like I should have won my match this week with Bubba Anthony pretty handily. Why did I feel that way? Well, both my rps were longer and "I" thought I out rped him in almost every category. Now, before anyone thinks I'm jumping on the pity party I got jobbed bandwagon... I'm not here to win matches and collect titles. I roleplay because it's fun.... win matches... loose matches.... In the end does it really matter as long as you enjoy rping and reading the, in my opinion, fantastic shows that come out every week? I stopped rping in the wrestling fed I was in before because it stopped being FUN... And I was actually pretty good. But it stopped being fun when people starting complaining about not winning their matches and saying the scoring system was unfair and certain people getting preferential treatment... I stopped rping in AOL fantasy based chat rp because it stopped being fun. I had amazing characters, was considered one of the best in my circle of gamers, and had alot of interested parties wanting me to join their groups. But, out of character drama and personal issues made it so frustrating to sign on to my screen names I just uninstalled AOL and called it quits. But that's not the case here I don't believe. The staff here is friendly. The other handlers here are friendly and offer help and advice when asked for. No one is in the public forms handler bashing or name calling. This is a fun environment to... escape the duldrum of the real world for a little bit and let your creative juices flow. So, please, if your not having fun by all means look elsewhere for your entertainment, but don't let loosing a match that YOU felt like you should have won drive you away from a very good wrestling e-fed. Roleplay, have fun, enjoy yourself, and don't worry about winning or loosing matches, just figure out a strat and come back for revenge later.... Make it interesting and HAVE FUN. Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[Bubba Anthony]

And who says two minds don't think alike. We probably shouldn't keep this up, but what the heck. The only person who thought Johnie should have beat Bubba more than Johnie was me. I'm glad that I won, and I'm glad Johnie promoed this week, but if I had lost, I would have been the last person to complain. I lost my first four matches in ACW, including a title match. I lost a contender match to Price, and after only a slight sigh, I began to plan for the next week. Now I know that losing isn't fun, as I am really competitive in real life, but this is still a game, no how many people are playing it like real life.

All I'm saying is retiring after one loss isn't worth it. If it was, ACW wouldn't have been graced with my humor if I had quit after Jay dented my head in with that chair. Hell, ACW wouldn't be around if the orginials gave up. It is just not worth it. Jayson, you're amazing at roleplaying, and just because you failed at winning a title on the first try shouldn't hinder the growth of your future here. I would miss your writing and Steven's smooth, but stupid none the less, too much.

Like Johnie said, have fun, whether it be Sang Real fun by constantly invoking my proud heritage, Kyle Travis smashing skulls with crowbars, or be like Steven haha.

[Cole Blaze]

Well I got to say Im with the redneck, and the other guy, you need to dust yourself off and try again, you got some real skill, and sometimes you got to go ahead and chalk it up to shit happens,

I been here for a grip, long time ion not so red neck talk, and I got to say there have been times that I knew damn well that I had a match won hands down, and for some reason didnt get the "W", man I was pissed, but you know what I did, I wrote something out, it was a strat demending a rematch, and it made for a good story line,

Really just a game, so enjoy and write something really good, its for entertainment!

Frankie.B[/b][/color]

[imbest]

I think most of us strive for some kind of validation for donating so much time and effort to the hobby. The first, and some think most important, way of earning that validation is through title runs. Another way is feedback posts. That's why I think the feedback posts are important for the match-writers - to feel appreciated for hard work. A third is by involving yourself with established stars. This is the most political aspect of getting the "rub" because it can rub some the wrong way.

I can understand Nathan's point of view. If you truly think you won, no amount of persuasion can change that. It happens in every sport. It has subjective forms of judging; we're humans with our own styles, tastes, and opinions so objective judging is out the window no matter how we define the terms. It boils down to this: do you have confidence in the staff's ability to judge squarely? If you do, then things can be worked out. If not, it's time to move on.

You find it in every federation. The main governance is an oligarchy. Friendships and familiarity are natural components to the long life of an e-fed. It all comes down to faith in the ACW fedheads, since they are the compilers of all the half-cocked and well-thought out plans. We should allow a small (too much must be questioned) dose of cronyism from time to time for the betterment of the federation as a whole (see Snake). He left just as I came in, so I have no real knowledge of him (not first hand, anyways), but I had faith, however shaky at times, that the Dark Lord angle had reason and depth. It played out well (I'll post a feedback as soon as I can read all of it more thoroughly), but I can definitely see how the angle can be off-putting, especially for those trying to make a name in ACW or those of a more traditional mindset.

I guess that's my two cents.

[Evan Harrison]

Here's my suggestion:

An amendment to the judging system to prevent people from crying foul when it comes to the results. I'm guilty of doing it twice. Each time I've done it in private, just to avoid offending the person I was against, but I've done it regardless. What I suggest is this...

A brief explanation of why the winner was chosen. The numbers system is very logical, and easy on the judges and definitely gives the writer an IDEA of what they need to improve on in their RPs, but is it really enough? It doesn't always seem to satisfy some of the people here, and it honestly does appear at times that people that are actively involved in bigger storylines rack up more wins and more titles than people that aren't involved in big angles that rely more on entertainment and point/counterpoint. I'm not afraid to point out that I've noticed that and have been a bit skeptical, but... Like Shawn said, everyone has different opinions, so who am I to say?

Even a rotating panel of judges would be nice since it takes the pressure off of the RPers here who have styles that are vastly different from what the staff wants. Having maybe 6-7 judges that are used interchangeably instead of the same 3-4 would be less discouraging, because from a completely logical standpoint... If the same 3-4 people are judging the same people's RPs every week, nothing is going to change unless the writer changes his style or his opponent no-shows.

The main problem here doesn't seem to be judging, but how the judging results are reflected when RPers ask for them. Numbers work for the judges, but it really doesn't help the writer that much, especially in close matches, or when the numbers look like they're made up from time to time.

[chaosstryke]

First, I'll just say that I understand Nathan's point of view. I think he went about voicing his disapproval in a bad way, but I understand everything behind his words because I feel the exact same way right now. I personally feel crushed by the fact that I lost the United States title match last week.

I'm not going to take shots at Andrew, because I'm glad for him and that he won the match and got the US title. He's a hard worker on rp forums and he goes out week after week trying his best and he deserves to have his moment. I don't want to take shots at the judges because they made their decisions based on what they thought was better. I might think otherwise, but I'm biased based on my style of rp.

But after struggling along for the last few months in regards to writing my rps, last week I finally had things drop into place and my writing came along very easily. I had the first rp up that week and it was of pretty good length too. It had been taking me days to put out that quantity over recent weeks. I personally felt that I had one of my best weeks of writing since my return two months ago.

I cannot explain just how bad I felt when I saw that my hard work essentially amounted to nothing. After weeks of frustration, I felt that I had a solid showing and the judges said 'not good enough' in regards to my rps. After my struggling, having a loss like that is extremely demoralizing. I lost my return match in December and I had the same feeling because I tried hard and put out more work than last week only to lose there as well.

You can say that this is just a game and is just for fun, but this is very much a competitive environment and you can easily end up with a lot of your ego and pride on the line when you write. Things end up hitting you a lot more personally then when you lose. I know because I've suffered through that for years while e-fedding. Having that emotional detachment from your character doesn't always come easily. And sometimes when you hit that point, all you can do is give yourself some distance from that environment and hope that you can sort things out.

Just wanting to add my opinion to this as well, since right now I see things from the same perspective as Nathan.

[The Fanged Entity]

I think i shall only say this. As someone who came from the same place as both Nathan and Tim, i would advise giving it a bit more time to adjust to this system. And give this time without any expectations or anger for "growing pains"

Not everyone here who has proven in time to be reliable, hard working and talented started that way. The handler of Aurora Matthews, arguably the greatest woman ever in ACW started off very badly when she first arrived. Cole Blaze, Hyena and Mike Voland all spent their first 5 months with a 3-15 record or close to it and look at them now.

Coming from AWA myself the problem is people from AWA are use to being judging based on "Quality over Quantity" without any further explanation. Here we have six separate and equally scored sections. just because your promo is "amazing" in Point/Counter point doesn't mean your going to win.

Tim, Nathan, i know your both capable of doing great things, having faced both of you multiple times. Tim, your work the last few weeks has been amazing to read. You wouldn't let this get it the way, i would hate to see either of you go.

In closing everyone of ACW remember this. No one here has the right to judge either of these men if they decide to leave. ACW has always been and will always be a place that is guilt and drama free. I hope you both stay, but if you leave us now we will always be happy to see you again whether it's simply just OOC leaving feedback and posting here.

PS.

There have been things discussed here which will be discussed by the staff. The explanation on why the winners are chosen by each judge will have to be looked at and also rotating judges, as these are both very good ideas and should be discussed.

[misery]

I'm sorry to sound like I'm whining but I just don't have faith that my character will be rewarded. Basically even in seeing my scores Sophie was considered better or equal to me in every category on one card, and i had one point over her on the other. I just don't see it that way. I don't understand the scoring and think I would have won in any other fed. So because of this, I don't have confidence that things would get better for me here. I have never quit a fed because of losing a match before but I just can't see how I belong in a fed where Sophie is considered better than me in every way. And it just isn't worth getting all worked up and bitter about something you are supposed to be doing for fun. It's not the winning or losing that gets me down. It's losing a match where afterwards you just think your style isn't going to be rewarded.

good luck guys

Nathan

[The Fanged Entity]

You as well Nathan, it was good getting to see Misery even if only briefly.

Misery was always one of my favorite characters. I remember Snake returning in the mask during the World Title match between Misery and Brian Williams.

haha

[A.C. Smith]

I usually don't post in threads like this, but since I saw it up and have been guilty of wondering why what I did wasn't good enough, I feel like putting my two cents in.

I feel like disclosure of why the judges judged the way they did is a very good idea. I think, in addition to the ratings system, judges should write maybe a paragraph summing the week up. If someone asks about why they got beat, then the fed-heads could simply send the paragraphs along (anonymously, without identifying who wrote what). I feel like that would speak to handlers a lot more than a sheet of numbers saying "OK, you were even in point-counterpoint but got blown away in Category X."

Transparency is always a good thing. And if this can provide constructive feedback and make everyone better, I'm 100% for it.

[imbest]

Thinking about it, AC may be onto something with addition of a voting synopsis or blurb. I'm not saying this did or has happened, but it easily could: pure numbers are great, but they are much easier to arbitrarily assign especially if the same people judge every week. It's easier to skim a RP, assign it a number defined by past voting, and send it on as opposed to taking each RP on its own merit. I think we would all improve from feedback. I know I would.

Nathan, you have friends here, so don't stray too far away. I, however, completely understand you decision and respect it. Sometimes personalities and beliefs are simply incompatible.

[Cole Blaze]

the ideas that w=have been pitched here are not bad, and I do have faith in the fact that the ACW staff will look over these matters and make decisions on them,
that will nothing short of "Better" the ACW, and that is a good thing,

leaving might seem like the only option at the moment, but there is an open door in the ACW, and Im sure that you will be welcomed back at any point that you feel like coming, so please if you do leave, dont forget about the people of the ACW, we will not forget about you,

As for a losing streak, me myself, my last count back then before the tide had changed was 17-4, it wasnt something I was proud of, but damn it was fun as hell just to rp, and that is what it is about, or atleast it was for me!

But honestly, I have been here for a decent amount of time, and I have always seen the ACW staff as fair, and pretty on top of things, now mistakes can and Im sure will be made from time to time, but it happens, as well sometimes you just dont get the call you like, but again It happens,

See, one time at band camp......... Wait wrong speech........ ok try this again, ne time Cole Blaze faced Snake, and it was one hell of a match, I thought I had it hands down, but in the end, it wasnt ment to be,
But I mean facing the fanged entity, and going tow to tow with a demon like that, it brought out the best work I think I have ever done, even to this day, but I didnt have it in me to win, I was for a lack of a better word.... PISSED" but I looked at it as a learning experiance, i read more of what everyone was doing, talked to more people abbout possible changes to my rp style, and all that jazz, and in the end I had made the things happen that needed to happen, and then I went onto a pretty decent winning streak, got a set of tag titles and the US title, so I mean it wasnt to bad, but the biggest thing I could ever say about rping, is to look at it as playing the PS3,,,, or Xbox 360, if you lose, when the screen pops up and askes if you want to restart from the last check point, Damn it press yes, and go kick the shit out of the game, play it hard, and Win or Lose just do your best, love yourown work, but know that some times its not going to be the bell of the ball, you cant win all the time, but you cant lose all the time either, so really, just pick yourself up and show us why you love rping, and dig E-Feds, get in there and RP your ass off, Itll pay off,

Thata about all I can say about it all,
but none the less no matter the choices any of you make, Im not mad at ya, do what you got to do and Uncle Frankie will be here if and when you come back!

Frankie.B

(Uncle Frankie)[/b]

[melindahawkens]

The handler of Aurora Matthews, arguably the greatest woman ever in ACW started off very badly when she first arrived.

Boy is that an understatement. I had no clue what I was doing when I came in, ACW was my first eFed even though I'd been roleplaying for years. I came in, and was tossed against a very stiff competitor who showed me no mercy - but that was a good thing. The learning curve was high. But I asked questions on how to improve, and listened to the advice I was so kindly given and most of all? I was patient.

I knew that as being new to eFedding and having a new character it would take time to improve and the pay off when it came was big. I can honestly say I'm very proud of what I did with Aurora. Two time Women's Champion with the longest reign of any women's champion.

Here's the thing. Being so dominant here in ACW, if I took Aurora someplace else with new rules and a new style of roleplay and judging...would it be logical for me to expect that after a few matches I be on top there too? Of course not. It takes time. Being the top of the heap is nice, but you can't just expect that to happen over night in a whole new ballpark.

Patience is a virtue - but a really hard one to get a handle on sometimes.

Tim, Nathan - I really hope you stay, or if you leave for awhile come back. The doors in ACW really are always open, even if the partings aren't always peaceable. You both do entertaining work and have amazing potential to enjoy your characters here despite any disappointment and frustration you may be feeling now.

I honestly though wish you both nothing but good luck if you do want to leave, and hope you know you're welcome to come back at any time.

[Johnie Basham]

I think, after Bubba's reply, I need to clarify some things. I didn't intend to imply that I thought Bubba should have lost his match with Johnie.... quite the contrary. Personally, I believe my rps were better on the point counter point, equal in quality of rp, and both were longer. But I have to look at the big picture. I can't/don't devote as much time to rping week in and week out as Bubba's handler. Between college and my obligations to Uncle Sam I just don't have the time to really give my all.... Bubba's handler puts a great deal of time and effort into rping EVERY week. That being said, I think the people who do put in more work deserve to get a little bump when it comes to scoring, especially in close matches. I hope that the people who are considering leaving stay. I read ever almost every RP that is done week in and week out and from what I've seen the two people in question are very good at what they do. If they do leave I feel that this FED will be worse for it. I hope they at least consider giving the staff a chance to correct some errors before they leave. If not I hope they stay in contact and perhaps come back one day. As for me, I still have confidence in the staff and the other handlers and hope to see more of the same quality in both RPS and match writing that I've come to expect here.